Evan “Buck” Buckley (Oliver Stark) and Tommy Kinard (Lou Ferrigno Jr) broke up in the 9-1-1 Season 8 Episode. While Buck is working through that breakup through baking, we’re still stuck in that moment when things start to fall apart for the couple.
Due to some scheduling conflicts, we couldn’t catch up with Ferrigno Jr until recently. He’s been shooting the series S.W.A.T. “Rocker is a whole different ball game,” Ferrigno Jr said after apologizing for his busy schedule. Ferrigno Jr plays Donovan Rocker on the CBS cop procedural, who he’s been playing since 2017. About his return to S.W.A.T after filming 9-1-1, Ferrigno Jr said he “really took joy in not being devastated or broken up or anything. It was completely a nice reprieve from the emotional stuff.”
But that “emotional stuff” is why people are still reeling from the breakup between Buck and Tommy. As Ferrigno Jr says later in our conversation, “Real characters and real moments can affect people for weeks and weeks on end.”
It wasn’t until the breakup scene in 9-1-1 Season 8 Episode 6 that the core of who Tommy was became clear. We caught up with Ferrigno Jr about filming the breakup scene, why people might still be so affected by it, and why Ferrigno Jr isn’t entirely satisfied with where we leave Tommy.
BUT WHY THO: It’s been a bit since 9-1-1 Season 8 Episode 6 aired. What has the response been like for you over the past couple of weeks?
LOU FERRIGNO JR: The response has been, for the most part, very positive and very conflicted. There’s people that were way more invested in the relationship than I would’ve thought. And they just can’t seem to not tell me. I value and appreciate that I’ve put forth a character and am, I guess, approachable enough for these people to reach out and give me their honest opinions. I’m talking, honest opinions, and they are real. People are living by these characters in this scene, and it’s tremendous.
BUT WHY THO: Were you surprised by the upset about the breakup?
LOU FERRIGNO JR: Well, in my mind, yes. Yeah, a little bit, I was. Because we just left the cemetery and it was so cute, and [Buck and Tommy] were so great. And then for the next episode to be the episode where they break up, I was definitely in a little bit, not a shock, but I figured, [showrunner] Tim’s [Minear] got something in mind. I don’t know, hopefully. But I do love the show and I love playing Tommy and, yes, it was premature.
BUT WHY THO: Is that really it for Tommy and you on 911?
LOU FERRIGNO JR: I hope not. Even if I did know, I don’t know if I could even let you know. Katey, I’d like to tell you. I’d like to comfort you now that Tommy would be coming back, maybe, to cross the T’s and dot the I’s, but I’m just going to have faith that the 911 creators have something cool up their sleeve. I can’t really answer at this point.
BUT WHY THO: Leading up to the breakup, what were your discussions with Tim about how and when it was going to happen, and did you discuss where Tommy goes from here?
LOU FERRIGNO JR: You are so sweet. I wish I got any of that information. I am more of a day it’s written, call me up, type of guy. I don’t get any pre-breakup email or anything. You’d hopefully think that Tim would at least do it through text. But no, he tells me what’s on his mind and if I’m good to go and that’s about it. He’s like a little bit of a phone Santa, because he calls and he tells me these amazing, incredible arcs that now I am involved in. I hope it continues.
BUT WHY THO: Your performance in the breakup scene was very moving and I think because of that performance we could infer a lot of backstory about Tommy. How did you approach uncovering those layers of Tommy given how short and final that scene is?
LOU FERRIGNO JR: Thank you. That’s very nice of you. Well, I had a revelation, and it’s interesting, just like every other job and every other thing on TV is if what you watch is moving, as you say, which is wonderful. I love that. Does that mean it was a good performance? Because they could have people who do a good performance but don’t connect, and there’s people who can do a not great performance and not connect, and then you don’t like the show.
As an actor I have my toolbox, but at the same time I’ve come to understand now that every single word Tim and the team write is placed in this very specific order. And my job, in my mind [which] I love, is even if it doesn’t make sense on the page, even if it’s something that was a typo, I’ll even try to make sense of it to make it real. And the line, “You wouldn’t mean to, you wouldn’t plan for it, but you’d end up breaking my heart,” I feel that’s easy to gloss over and one could say, “oh, because of the pain and he doesn’t want to be hurt again.”
But with me and him, going back there, I knew it would be a big scene. I knew it was going to be very important to the canon. I knew that I had to play it truthfully and honestly. And I just tried to find the levels in terms of how complex this man is. And when we think as people, we don’t think on this type of level, and then we’re thinking like this, and then like this, and then like this. It is all inflection.
And so I really wanted to disguise my pain within the inflection because he goes into “breaking my heart,” and Tommy’s trying to break it down and make it easy for Buck to understand. But I don’t think Tommy understands as well. He just knows this is the best case for both people because it was devastating for everybody the last time. Having that relationship and that tension that I placed on Buck and, I really care for him and I want him to succeed when it does, that breakup scene, I didn’t want my past to bleed over into the moment.
There’s a lot of suppression. There’s a lot of trying to let him down softly because, in Tommy’s mind, that’s it. He’s incapable of being with someone at this point. There’s help that Tommy, I think, needs. I doubt Tommy was a guy who went to therapy, and I doubt that Tommy was that self-reflective until later. I think people thought he had something wrong with him his whole life. Yeah, and I don’t know, I just went in there with a goal and plan and hopefully reached it.
BUT WHY THO: Well, for the record, that line that you quoted, the “You wouldn’t mean to, you wouldn’t plan for it, but you’d end up breaking my heart” part was the moment where I was like, I feel like I understand what’s happening here, and it’s very tragic.
LOU FERRIGNO JR: I did, too. I really wanted to justify the breakup, and it’s hard with the amount of that monologue. It’s not malicious; it’s not spitefully written. It’s basically just laying it out. I wanted to calm down, slow my body temperature, and pace myself because when things are serious, we talk. But because [Buck] was new, because he was still figuring himself out, I just really wanted to be kind to him as I’m guessing someone wasn’t as kind to Tommy.
BUT WHY THO: There are a lot of story beats that happen in this scene. Tommy and Buck are about to go to the movies and they’re excited to see each other. Buck comes clean about Abby, they move past that, and then Buck asks Tommy to move in, but then the scene pivots drastically. Can you talk a little bit about how you, Oliver and director Chad Lowe worked together to find the rhythm of the scene to make sure all those story beats come across as smoothly as possible?
LOU FERRIGNO JR: In the scene, I know I’ll be leading [with] devastated. I mean, it’s just heart-wrenching. I watched [the breakup scene] last night and I just, oh, I almost teared up. I like to watch things objectively. I like to watch and just nitpick myself for better or worse. And I really did enjoy it. It is hard to say that about my work because that’s not what I feel I’m here to do. I feel like I’m supposed to analyze and try to go after, but because I was going to be devastated and everyone’s going to be devastated, [Tommy’s] going to be devastated, it’s going to be a sad scene, we got to start off light. That way we have a full 180 from the end.
I’m a big fan of finding new parking where you need one. I get really excited if I find a spot that’s like, “oh my God, it was right outside!” I don’t know what it is. [Tommy] probably went out of his car to check twice if it was white or yellow. And he’s like, okay. It was a good vibe. Then right away, Tommy’s coming in [to the loft] with that feeling when you find an item at a store that’s like, “oh, I have to buy it,” or it’s a parking spot. He was excited about that. And he’s always excited to see Buck — Evan. And then the Abby thing, it’s so funny, Tim called me about Abby, and in watching the scene, I thought people were going to be up in arms or they were going to be just like, “what the heck just happened?” But that took a distant second to the breakup scene ’cause then that happened and it was like, “oh shit.” And then the breakup was just so out of nowhere.
As the kiss [in 9-1-1 Season 7 Episode 4] was out of… It was less of a lead up to it, I think. It was more abrupt and out of nowhere. But with that scene and the [story] beats, I wanted to be happy about the parking spot. And the one thing that I really liked that I didn’t even realize was — we got 15 minutes, we got time. And then I gave him a little look as if, like, “hey, we want to get down these 15 minutes?” ‘Cause that’s staying within the vein of me being excited.
And that was just a way to further their relationship. The Abby thing, that’s nothing I’ve ever come across in my life, but I’m at a place of resolution with her. And so it was just definitely weird, but I don’t think at all it played into him breaking up with Buck. I mean, that was maybe a little weird, but the moving in thing was what sounded the alarm.
I didn’t want to be anticipatory. I didn’t want to look like I’m waiting to say the line. I don’t want to look like I’m not living in the moment. I just tried to be as present as possible and take them as they came. And by the time [Buck] said, “move in with me,” it was just like, “woo,” like a bit of a roller coaster, and then “ahhh”, and I’m like, “okay.” Even in the one thing where I’m smiling and [the move in question] comes ups, and that to me, that moment — that was Chad’s direction, too.
It was heartbreaking. I actually see the look on [Tommy’s] face. You see it turn from joy to pain and joy to fear. And I wanted to indicate that this is not going to be easy for him. But I didn’t want to give away anything along the line. I mean, how did you view the breakup? Was it callous, was it thoughtful?
BUT WHY THO: No. The way I viewed it, I think when he first starts talking, I was a little bit like, “come on, man. What’s happening here?” But as soon as he said, “You wouldn’t mean to, but you would break my heart.” That was when I was like, oh, I understand this guy right now. I was like, I got to root for this guy. Even though he’s the one choosing to do the breakup right now, I’m like, I want all the best for him.
LOU FERRIGNO JR: Yeah, thank you. And they say, he loves Buck. Tommy loves Evan enough at this point to want to just keep him as sweet and innocent as possible, I suppose. Who knows how bad it could have been, how bad it was, how bad it is dating Tommy. Who knows? I can’t imagine it’d be too bad, but when he said that, “you’ll end up breaking my heart.” I was watching him objectively and I was just like, this is so sad, this guy.
He doesn’t even know what love is, it seems. He’s just getting there and then right when things start to pick up, he takes it as a full on firing range of assault of all the bad words and bad names he’s been called his whole life come flooding back. It’s so sad. And he’s so broken. Being as big of a guy as he is, I appreciated how vulnerable I seemed in that scene, which is not easy, Katey. You have a million words, but you can’t say them. It’s like, what are you going to do? What can you do?
But I commend Tommy ’cause maybe if it is bad — maybe if it is really bad — and he saved Buck and loves Buck, he doesn’t want Buck to be a part of it because who knows. I respect that, but it’s just sad because it really does show that Tommy does not want to revisit something that was devastating.
BUT WHY THO: Ever since your return in 9-1-1 Season 7, Tommy has referenced multiple times that he is looking for a family, and in 9-1-1 Season 8 Episode 5 there were many references to the importance of having your people around when things go wrong. Why do you think Tommy ran away the moment Buck opened that door for him to have that, and now that Tommy is gone, where does that thread go?
LOU FERRIGNO JR: Wow, these are good questions. I wish I had the answers for you. I do believe that that was a bit conflicting as well. I mean, he wanted a family that was going to be there for him. He wanted camaraderie, he wanted the dream. But I think Tommy presents himself as a put-together, well-to-do, smart, well-adjusted pilot. But I think that veneer is hard and thin because when it does come close, he is more concerned… Clearly, he’d rather take solitude over, I guess, [family] if it comes in the form of a relationship.
I think he was talking about professionally, but he also wanted something else. He wanted a place to turn, a family to support him, love him, and appreciate what he does. But I don’t think he’s ever had that, and I think that maybe he just didn’t know that he couldn’t put those things together. You ever go through a really emotional situation and are like, “what did I do?” You blacked out, blanked out. Honestly, Katey, my, Lou’s, perspective is I’m having a hard time understanding as well, because the writing was on the wall right there. It was like, you get the family, you’re already in the family at this point. Things could be great. Come on, man. I didn’t understand. There’s a lot I don’t understand. I appreciate you coming to me and asking, but I just wish I knew.
BUT WHY THO: Do I have it right that episode six was filmed before episode five? Is that correct?
LOU FERRIGNO JR: The first four to six, I think the whole six, mostly the first four or maybe the six we all jumbled up. We were shooting maybe 8×01 and then 8×03 and then 8×05. But then what we shot in 8×05 is now going to be 8×06. We were definitely on the tail end of information of this production shoot. Yes, it was all mishmash, but we did shoot the breakup scene before the cemetery.
BUT WHY THO: Okay. That was what I wanted to ask about ’cause there are a lot of great Buck and Tommy scenes in episode five, but having already filmed the breakup, what was important for you to convey about Tommy and about Buck and Tommy in episode five, knowing they were about to end?
LOU FERRIGNO JR: Oh, you were one step ahead of me. I didn’t really think about it that much. I mean, we did the scene and then I guess just based on how it went and how it was such a shock that we’re just happy as a clam. I mean, given the circumstance, I mean, I’m happy with Evan. Tommy is. But then he’s not so happy that these massive boils are on his face. But other than that, he’s supportive just as he would be with anyone he’s dating. As an actor, it had no real bearing on my performance because that’s what I do. I just match the arc and find those true moments.
But I was thinking when we were running to the car and then we had this cute little scene in the car after the cemetery, I was like, God, people are going to be shocked because we’re so cute and we’re so great. And [Buck] called Tommy his boyfriend for the first time. But yeah, even with that said, we filmed the breakup scene with [director] Chad [Lowe].
And in my heart and mind, I want to think that there is a larger picture being painted, but I can’t live like that as a professional and as a grown man. I have to just keep my eyes up and focus on the task at hand. But I just knew that it was going to be, I mean, honestly with the Abby thing, I thought Abby was going to be a bigger deal than the breakup, but people are upset about this breakup. They’re saying the nicest, sweetest things, but I never intended to cause any type of disruption in the show. And I’m literally saying what they tell me to say. All the gesticulations and all the face movements, that’s all me. And how to package those lines and deliver them. But I mean, they act like I wrote it and I produced it, and I’m just toying with them on purpose. I’m like, I didn’t…
BUT WHY THO: They’re just upset [about the breakup]. Everyone, I think, has walked away from that scene just really endeared, I think, to Tommy.
LOU FERRIGNO JR: And it wouldn’t have been the case if I wasn’t able to, in that short amount of time, convey the pain, convey my apprehension, and also make it real. Just looking at him, when I had to be like, “Evan, you’re an incredible guy,” even though it’s micro, micro seconds of pause, then just holding at him. That’s really, to me, what conveys a real relationship. Especially on screen, but it was just, I don’t know, it just sucks. How can a guy like that ever be happy?
BUT WHY THO: Are you satisfied with where you’re leaving Tommy?
LOU FERRIGNO JR: No, I’m not. I love Tommy and I love the show and I love the fandom and I am not satisfied. I want more, and I hope that they have a plan in store because I don’t think they can just pick another actor to play Tommy. I don’t think it’s me. It is probably something else. But no, I’m very unsatisfied. I understand if the fans and everyone else is unsatisfied, and maybe because it was so real that we expect TV to be more TV. Every time I see “you’d end up breaking my heart.”
That’s so sad and it’s so real. And they’re just words, but they’re really not because that’s why this show is so wonderful. There’s this magic that [the people who work on the show] have between making the words out of these actors’ mouths make a lot of sense. I love the show. I’ve said this before, the show makes me feel good about myself. The show really embraces the craft of acting like few others. And this is an example of what real acting does. Real acting and real characters and real moments can affect people for weeks and weeks on end. And you still think about things. And right now, it is completely in limbo. But Tommy did bubble Buck. He did bubble Buck, and-
BUT WHY THO: You know about that? (referring to when Buck notices that Tommy starts texting, or “bubbling,” him in 9-1-1 Season 8 Episode 7.)
LOU FERRIGNO JR: Well, yeah, it was in the last episode, right?
BUT WHY THO: Yeah.
LOU FERRIGNO JR: Oh yeah, I saw that. Well, I had to look it up. I was like, what is this, “bubbles Buck?” That is indicative that Tommy is not shipped away to another place, but he is still around in mind. But no, I’m not satisfied.
9-1-1 airs on Thursdays on ABC.
